On the day I met Mr. Wang Xuezhong, the weather was not good, and it looked gloomy from Beijing. When I arrived in Tianjin, it was raining cats and dogs. The photographer and I both thought wet: I'm afraid Wang won't go out in this weather, and he may arrange reception for people around him. When I got out of the station and took the bus, I finally stood in front of the Wang Xuezhong Art Museum of Tianjin University, which was more than half an hour later than the appointed time. To our surprise, in the room, Wang Lao, who was sitting on a wooden chair reading a book, greeted him with joy on crutches. My wife and I have been waiting for us for more than 30 minutes.

Wen: Hello, Wang Lao! I'm sorry we're late. How did you get here in such a heavy rain?

Wang Xuezhong: Did you see the tricycle outside? My wife pushed me down.

(Wang Lao's humor made us laugh, but at the same time we were deeply sorry: I really don't know how the two old people rode a tricycle in such a heavy rain. )

Wang Xuezhong: Yes! My legs and feet are inconvenient. That's my car. It has always been like this.

Wen: How have you been recently? What are you up to?

Wang Xuezhong: I'm in good health and my spirit is much better than before. Now I take creation as my career, and I usually take drawing as my daily life, and I also do some academic research. I used to write more papers, but now I am older and write less.

Wen: I like your poems and landscape paintings very much.

Wang Xuezhong: When I was young, I focused on painting, calligraphy and poetry. I created many poems. There are four-character style, five-character style, quatrains and metrical poems. It is more difficult to draw landscape painting now, and it is slower to draw, so it can be faster to draw flowers and birds. As long as I have time, I want to draw as many good pictures as possible. I have always liked painting landscapes. I used to climb mountains and wade when I had the opportunity to travel. I want to paint when I see good scenery. But we didn't have media hype at that time, we just worked hard. I know your home is in Xi, and Liu Zidu from your place is my good friend. We often have meetings together. From his appearance, he looks nothing like a calligrapher. He has no shelf, is not tall, and has a little pot. Like Zhong Mingshan, calligraphy theory has high attainments. He has written many works, such as The History of China's Calligraphy, which is very literary. They are all hard-working people.

Text: You are 8 1 years old this year. After careful calculation, you wrote at the age of five and painted at the age of six. Now it has been 756 years, and you have been engaged in painting and calligraphy all your life. I started my career as an artist when I was very young. It should be related to your family background, right?

Wang Xuezhong: Yes, it has something to do with my family background. After I was born, my father took "Nai" as my "word" from the book of songs "Nai Mian did not dare to sue me". This word has become a harbinger of my accession to the WTO, that is, I was born without talent and relied entirely on hard work and diligence to make up for my shortcomings. I studied very early, also from my family studies. My ancestral home is Langya, Linyi, Shandong. According to "Tengyang Wang Family Tree", after our Wang family was an aristocrat of Langya Wang in the Western Jin Dynasty, Wang Xizhi's family crossed the river to the south, and the other family was scattered in Shanxi, Shandong. After the ancestors of Wang moved to Guohedian, tengxian in the Yuan Dynasty, they still inherited the legacy of Wang Langya's emphasis on calligraphy, and took calligraphy as a symbol of whether Langya really inherited it. The children of the Wangs are not good at writing, and they will feel humiliated to their ancestors. I studied painting in primary school. Influenced by my cousin, he is twenty years older than me. He is good at drawing Zhu Lan and often teaches me to draw. I was fascinated and naturally became interested.

Abstract: The development of academic history at home and abroad tells us that the school is an indispensable factor to activate academic research and the foundation of its own development. However, in recent years, the lack of school and the lack of rational critical spirit in theoretical circles have hindered the development of school itself. The "Nai School" you founded is a school with China painting and calligraphy as its core, especially modern literati painting. Some people say that the appearance and recognition of Naixue will definitely play a catalytic role in today's academic circles, especially in the painting and calligraphy circles, but this school does not seem to be understood by more people. Is that so?

Wang Xuezhong: Nai Xue, which I founded, is a three-dimensional and comprehensive theoretical system, including artistic theory and artistic practice, including philosophy, poetry, novels, calligraphy, painting and many other artistic categories. The central ideas of Nai Xue's philosophy are Gaiming theory and regression equilibrium theory. If you want to make it clear, you must hide and explain clearly. The theory and political discourse of any scientist or politician are expounded in a roundabout way. We can't simply say that philosophy is the same as many ideas. If we rely on other things to speak, it can't be a scientific theory: "God's will shows that the high cycle and high speed operation of heaven, when people's thinking power is not close, will return to the old chapter with the scale of returning to balance." It's like an argument between two people. In the end, one side wins and one side loses, or the other two sides live in peace and balance. Everything is like this. Among them, the characteristics of material knowledge I put forward have been ignored by Chinese and western philosophers. In my philosophical work Naizi, I discussed the chapters of Heaven, Material Way, Humanism and Shinto, and how to establish a harmonious relationship between people, people and nature, and people and society: as human beings, we should respect and love things, and face nature and society, giving rather than taking too much; For the whole world, we should have a feeling of caring for the people and build a beautiful society full of love and dedication.

Wen: Now everyone is working hard to build a harmonious society, which proves that your academic theory is scientific and forward-looking. You have written a lot, especially your book "Calligraphy Essentials", which explains in detail how to enter the path of painting and calligraphy, so that beginners can gain something.

Wang Xuezhong: Yes. My calligraphy outline mainly introduces a system of calligraphy and summarizes it into an academic system. Calligraphy used to be writing. I classify it as calligraphy, and then classify and comment on the origin and writing of each font. This book will be reprinted. I also wrote two companion articles: one about calligraphy and the other about Chinese painting, both of which should be reprinted. This shows that everyone still recognizes it.

Wen: You have made outstanding achievements in calligraphy creation, and your creative experience will certainly have a strong educational effect on future generations.

Wang Xuezhong: I really hope my creative experience can inspire others. I think people who study calligraphy must be diligent, innovative and have certain academic achievements. My pursuit in writing is: updating every word. Each article has its own face and does not repeat. I often write some new poems, record and express my thoughts and feelings, and then express them in calligraphy. Since you are in this business, try to write a poem and write your own. Even if I write a poem of the ancients, I will also indicate whose excerpt it is, and I must do it accordingly. A calligrapher must be literate, understand poetry and traditional culture, otherwise how can he be a calligrapher? Wang Xizhi's grade lies in Preface to Lanting. He can write poems while drinking, and he can read. What about calligraphers now? But we can't ask everyone like this. Many people simply can't do it. I can't pretend to be famous, at least I am worthy of my career.

Abstract: The influence of China traditional culture on Chinese painting is deeply rooted, and Chinese painting is a part of traditional culture. I remember you said that China culture is an elegant culture, but China's calligraphy and painting can't break the elegance, and it is based on natural beauty, but it is not vulgar culture. Now our country is "all people write books and all people draw pictures", so naturally some people go to pop culture.

Wang Xuezhong: Yes, some people used to engage in elegant art and some people engaged in popular art, but now it's a mess. Few people are willing to devote themselves to the study of high art because they have no money to earn, because they are lonely. Take Huang as an example, his works are beyond ordinary people's understanding, but as far as his national genes are concerned, the height and depth of the essence of traditional culture he absorbed have reached a very high level, so his works have more elegant cultural elements and more elegant culture, and the acceptance range is narrow, so that his works were ignored or even belittled at that time, and it was not until many years later that people gradually understood and accepted them.

Wen: We just talked about elegance, so how can we make more and more people's calligraphy and painting "elegant"?

Wang Xuezhong: As you said just now, there are many people engaged in painting and calligraphy, and many of them belong to the arty class. Poetry, calligraphy and painting are the source of nourishing elegant culture. Although we can't ask everyone who paints Chinese paintings and learns calligraphy to write poems, write lyrics and write poems, it is a compulsory course for everyone who is engaged in painting and calligraphy to be influenced by China traditional culture. To understand the basis of traditional Chinese painting and how to set it up, we should first understand calligraphy, and then understand China classical literature. Of course, I am not advocating that China culture should return to its original state, and Chinese painting should also absorb foreign excellent culture.

Wen: You mentioned foreign culture. Nowadays, many people are exploring the combination of western art and Chinese painting and abandoning the traditional culture of China. They believe that only in this way can Chinese painting develop and have a future. What's your opinion?

Wang Xuezhong: This statement is too one-sided. There is no comparison between western art and China traditional culture. It's like someone saying that "a hundred Qi Baishi is not worth one Lu Xun". They are all the same, and there is no comparability at all. Our height can never be reached by foreigners, nor can we reach the height of foreign countries because of different blood ties. Besides, the basis of Chinese painting and western painting is different, and the artists created are certainly different. Nowadays, western painting is the main art school, and sketch has become the basis of all painting. Although it is necessary, no matter how good the sketch is, it is also the opposite of a national painter who loses his tradition and does not know how to "create artistic conception". If we abandon China's traditional culture and blindly explore the way out of Chinese painting in western art, there is definitely no future.

Text: It has been more than twenty years since you put forward the concept of "modern literati painting" in 1985. In recent years, the "New literati paintings" in Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces has developed rapidly, showing a vigorous development trend. At present, dozens of people have been engaged in the creation of New literati paintings, which has had a certain influence in China. So what's the difference between "modern literati painting" represented by you and "New literati paintings"? What is the current development situation?

Wang Xuezhong: First of all, I am a scholar and a painter. So my paintings are generally considered as literati paintings and literati paintings. But I think my Chinese painting should be more accurately defined as modern literati painting. Modern literati painting does not form a genre, which is just one of my theories. Why do I have to call it "modern literati painting"? We are modern, which is different from what was said in ancient times.

My "modern literati painting" is also very different from "New literati paintings". Modern literati painting needs high self-cultivation, deep skill and good people, and it can only be achieved by paying equal attention to the three, instead of blindly flaunting "rough brushwork without seeking form" and only knowing the actions of people who pursue small interests without learning. The modern literati painting I advocate is a literary work of the times. My creation is based on tradition, but the times require innovation. Therefore, what is still revealed in my literati paintings is a feeling of literati elegance.

Now there are some young people who draw inappropriately and inaccurately. Just give them a "good name" and call it "improper painting". In ancient times, there was a painter named Ni Yunlin. He didn't like painting, but he just didn't seek form. So some people in modern times say that "not seeking form is the characteristic of New literati paintings" when painting. As a scholar drawing, one must first understand the language. How can you be a scholar if you don't know the language? Literati painting should have the precipitation of literary accomplishment and poetic accomplishment, unlike ordinary painting, which has no accumulation of life and directly takes strokes. Some of them don't write poems, they can't understand them, and they are all typos. How can they draw literati paintings?

I have an article that comprehensively and systematically discusses this point of view, which was written for New literati paintings. Now some young students are reluctant to enter the real Chinese painting, thinking that "literati painting is the most convenient, good and poor." You paint like, I don't like, I am New literati paintings ". I don't think this statement really understands the meaning of literati painting, it's just a hard copy. This is a question worth thinking about.

Text: A close reading of Mr. Wang's works, whether poems, books, paintings or essays, reveals profound artistic conception. After careful reading, I found that the works are full of literati's fighting spirit, childish banter, super high and interesting. The highest aesthetic ideal of your theory of learning tolerance is the beauty of wildness. Many of your "modern literati paintings" reflect this feature. When it comes to the painting style of Ye Yi, people who don't know it often think of it as wild and flashy. How to correctly understand "Ye Yi" in your works?

Wang Xuezhong: When it comes to "wild escape", people often think of Huang Xu and Huang Quan in the Five Dynasties and Xu Xi in the Southern Tang Dynasty. Because of different painting styles and circumstances, he is called "Xu Huangpi" by the world. His painting style is wild and easy, and he has not absorbed the rich flavor of the Huang family. My painting style has inherited the painting style of Xu Xiye Yi, and I send the "desolation and coldness" of Chinese painting to my works. My works pay more attention to expressing individuality, but they are not arrogant, not gloomy and desolate, not vulgar, not sweet or greasy. Painting is like being a man. My painting is consistent with my personality after I wash away the dust and customs.

Wen: At the same time as you founded the Nai School, you also put forward the Confucian Classics School. Classics have existed for thousands of years and are of great historical research value, but they have been ignored. You put forward this theory, which caused a sensation in the theoretical circle. As a calligraphy and painting media, we also want to take this opportunity to let more people know, not just the theoretical circle.

Wang Xuezhong: OK! There are many precious artistic treasures in China, such as Cliff Calligraphy, which can be found in ancient manuscripts. For example, Jingshi Island in Taishan Mountain is a combination of mountains and water, which is particularly spectacular. There are many cliff scriptures in Shandong, and I like them very much. I have always thought that there is a school of Confucian classics besides the stele. Confucian classics have been circulated for 1000 years, but they have not been fully understood. I mentioned in "On the Three Classics of Inscriptions" that the main reasons why the Classics are self-contained are as follows: 1. In order to make Buddhism immortal, the stone cliff was changed from writing scriptures to carving stones into big cliffs; Second, his calligraphy changed from classic style to cliff style; In addition, its writing class is neither an iron scholar-bureaucrat nor a local calligrapher in Beibei, but some writers, monks and Buddhist believers. If we summarize the Confucian classics of the Six Dynasties, one is Confucian classics and the other is Ruya. In today's view, both Confucian Classics and Cliff Style belong to neither the subordinate department nor the inscription department, but should be listed as calligraphy of the Confucian Classics Department separately, so as to be worthy of the name. We should also establish the study of this calligraphy system. About the origin of modern calligraphy, I put forward it from the perspective of the development history of calligraphy art. At that time, I thought it was the need of society and the necessity of historical development.

Text: Personally, I don't quite understand the current "modern calligraphy" and "popular calligraphy style". Some people call it an "ugly book". I don't know what they are after, but it seems to be more in the form of calligraphy. No one knows the handwriting, and the first sensory reaction is that it is really ugly. Is this calligraphy? How many words are difficult to recognize in Preface to Lanting Collection? Of course, I am not a calligraphy major, but from a layman's point of view, that's right. Calligraphy, as a traditional culture, needs to be developed, but at present, millions or even nearly ten million people are writing this unrecognizable calligraphy. Where should we start and what should we carry forward? Is it true that calligraphy can only be regarded as an art category and a reality, but it has actually begun to get farther and farther away from our lives? In the past two years, when we faced the same problem of collectors all over the world, we didn't know how to explain it. Someone once joked: Oh, you can't read these words? If you don't understand, that's right. If you understand it, it is not called calligraphy. This phenomenon seems controversial in the circle.

Wang Xuezhong: The rise and change of calligraphy in China occurred in every era. Since the earliest characterization, there has been no clear positioning of calligraphy, but the style of calligraphy has changed greatly. Every era should have the calligraphy style of every era. Nowadays, many people are exploring the style of new books, and it is inevitable that painters and painters of this era have the style of this era.

As an explorer, I am still tolerant. In this era, everyone is exploring, just like no one can stop the progress of water flow. Even if there are several eddies in the process of flow, it is normal and will eventually merge into the sea.

Now China's calligraphy is really moving towards a strange circle. Don't say that you are confused. Many people engaged in calligraphy research are very confused. Almost every day, there are messages from the media, and they are reported as soon as there is an exhibition. There are auctions, markets and "everyone" everywhere. In fact, you can tell at a glance that it is hype. Just like China society, there are many swindlers and advertisements, which dazzle the audience. Now China's calligraphy no longer pays attention to birth and attainments, but mainly depends on whether he has access, money and political background. I hope collectors around the world don't believe this. It doesn't make sense.

Another phenomenon is that some people who can't write occupy important positions in calligraphy. This will inevitably lead to the proliferation of calligraphy. Many young and middle-aged painters and calligraphers have no academic attainments, but they have hyped their own markets very well and published many exquisite works. The books we published at that time were all academic works, and the publishing house paid the author a fee. Now that the whole people are commercialized, books can be published by paid publishing houses, and the more they are printed, the more beautiful they are.

Wen: There are always people who say that they are a little divorced from society, and they are the kind of people who don't go with the flow and only focus on their own creation. I once saw an interesting story about you on the Internet, saying that you seem to seldom sell your works and cherish them. People from afar come here to collect your works, and you seem to cherish them. What is the reason?

Wang Xuezhong: The main reason is that I have too many fake calligraphy and paintings. You can just look at the calligraphy and painting market and auction venues. I wonder how much those people can sell. If you fall into this strange circle, you will not see the truth. I'm afraid that someone will take out my calligraphy and painting to copy and deceive people, so I've been reluctant to give it to others. Later, I simply stopped selling words. If he really knows me and appreciates me, I can send him some pictures.

Mr. Qi Gong once said that some calligraphers have too many typos. If we can distinguish the authenticity of those calligraphers' works, those with typos are generally originals, and those without typos are fakes. This is simply the greatest irony. Some people simply write cursive scripts to avoid others seeing typos, thinking that cursive scripts can be mixed up. In fact, cursive writing is particularly difficult and strict, and there is also a cursive script. Writing cursive script, only Wang Xizhi's cursive script can be called holy, which is the most difficult. "Dragon snake turns the pen" is to turn around like a dragon snake; "A little square is water", it takes a little to become water. It's strictly differentiated, and people who haven't practiced will scribble. There used to be many migrant workers, but now there are many calligraphy vagrants.

Wen: Last year, the painting and calligraphy market in China developed very well. For some reasons, many merchants began to invest in painting and calligraphy. Last year, the owners of private enterprises in Zhejiang invested hundreds of billions in calligraphy and painting, but a large number of collections were fake and shoddy. There is a process to improve the level of popular art, and at the same time, more enthusiastic and professional people are needed to popularize it, telling people what kind of works of art are valuable and effectively avoiding blindness. Just now you mentioned that you were a little disappointed with the current situation of the art market. Will this affect your creative mood?

Wang Xuezhong: I understand that the art market must go through a process from non-standardization to standardization, and everyone's discriminating ability needs to be improved gradually. At that time, some works without connotation will naturally be eliminated. In the past, Ding () and Huadu advocated the establishment of a Chinese painting creation group to bring together famous painters and painters from all over the country to create. All the famous artists have been transferred, and there are dozens of painters all over the country. Ding Lao proposed this list to China and returned it to the social human resources department. At that time, an appraisal had to be appointed, and not everyone could go. Must be someone who has learned something and really has the attainments of Chinese painting. The advantage of doing this is that it is different from some painters who speculate wildly in society, and they go to the rough and save the essence. I worked in Beijing Chinese Painting Creation Group for two years. First at the Friendship Hotel, then moved. After two years, I can't go again because I have a teaching task. Later, the leadership changed, and Ding Lao and Hua no longer presided over it. I think all the works sold now were painted by us at that time, and I don't know how many times they changed hands.

I don't want to compete in the market, so the chaos in the art market doesn't matter to me. For the whole society, one person's strength is too small to control a society. I will do what I have to do. Artists like Ding Lao are more discriminating and discriminating. I wish I could be like him.

Wen: I remember that at an academic seminar, the chairman of the Singapore Book Association said about you, "There are still such clean people in China today". After some understanding and reading your article, I feel the same way.

Wang Xuezhong: I have never pursued money or fame in my life. I like studying Laozi and Zhuangzi, and I know that fame and fortune are just a dream. I also admire Wei Zhi, and would rather be a contemporary "clean stream". My paintings and calligraphy never enter the market, do not speculate, do not take the initiative to cater to the tastes of the public, and do paintings and calligraphy just to express my literati feelings. I wrote in "I paint and I paint songs": "My painting is my nature. I write what I love, but I don't want to pick it up. Good or bad depends on people ... "I was re-elected as the vice chairman of China Book Association for three times, served as the vice chairman of Tianjin Artists Association, the chairman of Tianjin Book Association, and so on. At the same time, I am also a member of the expert group of UNESCO, and won the World Peace Culture Award, Lu Xun Literature and Art Award, and the honor of a master. This is the academic recognition from all walks of life. My wish is not empty talk. I put my limited savings into public welfare undertakings. I was the first person in the literary and art circles to pay attention to laid-off workers and donate money to them. During the SARS period, two doctors died while saving SARS patients. I donated money to their orphans so that they could finish their studies. A man should be broad-minded and compassionate. Although I am charitable, I always lead a very ordinary life with my family. I admire the sages in Wei and Jin Dynasties and the personalities of Qu Yuan, Ji Kang and Tao Qian. They are elegant and silent. I am old now, and I am still indifferent to the complicated world. I can only study hard and keep writing.

Wen: During the ten years in the Academy of Fine Arts, you studied Chinese painting and oil painting, and your work in Tianjin University was mainly about painting creation. But you have a great influence on calligraphy, but your evaluation of yourself is "poetry comes first", and the most external evaluations are "famous thinkers, educators, famous poets and painters". Which of these evaluations do you think is more accurate?

Wang Xuezhong: To be honest, I can only say that they have their own opinions. It is difficult for you to ask the media to give you a fair evaluation. The media praised me more than others. Some people say my paintings are good, some people say my handwriting is good, and some people say my articles and poems are good. It is difficult to have a comprehensive evaluation, so I'm not sure which author wrote it accurately. Leave it to future generations anyway.

Wen: Wang Lao, we are honored to meet you today and talk so much. You must always take care of yourself, and we will definitely come to see you again when we have time.

Interview Notes: Mr. Wang Xuezhong entered the Art College for three times, and studied under masters such as Wu Jingting, Qi Baishi, Huang, Lin Fengmian, Xu Beihong and Li Keran in ten years, and gained experience that ordinary people can't get. At that time, Mr. Xu Beihong had a unique eye and thought that Wang Xuezhong would make great achievements in the future. Wang Lao did not live up to the expectations of his mentor, Mr. Xu Beihong, and founded the Naixue Garden and the Jingxue Garden, which made great contributions to inheriting and carrying forward China's excellent national culture and enriching and developing China's painting and calligraphy art. Not only that, he donated money enthusiastically and showed his love without hesitation.

With the help of crutches, we scanned the calligraphy works and poetry collections that had been covered with thin dust in the showcase of the art museum. We read Wang Lao's endless desire for art in his deep eyes. How much is unwilling in this eager eyes?

At the moment we went out, we couldn't help looking at the rusty tricycle again.

People and books are old. Sir, you are connected.